Spidey

Spidey
I'll Say What I Want To Say

Wednesday, November 14, 2007

Coach Follows Athlete?

by: The Ref


I have been apprised of the Situation by the Spiderman and have read the pertinent post on the subject.

The question is a good one; but the subject contains only a few possibilities.

First and foremost, an investigation into inappropriate action can always be initiated by the principle of a school that wishes to bring forth accusations of rules violations. I say the principle because he/she must sign off on any request for an investigation; but in reality it would be the athletic director that writes up the allegations from information he may have obtained from his coach or an outside source.

The facts as it pertains to this case have not been made public, so I will write on the subject based on the assumptions that the Wrestler in question did in fact transfer to American Prior his coach and it was in subsequent manner that the coach came to the same school as his former wrestler. While I am aware of no such rule that would prohibit eligibility of an athlete based on his coach relocating to a school to which that individual had previously relocated, there are other circumstances that would justify cause for investigation.

An investigation may be launched on the pretext that the athlete had prior knowledge that his coach would be leaving for a position at another school and moved to that school in preemptive manner. While this would be very hard to prove because the Athlete or his guardian would basically have to corroborate that they were aware of the coaches imminent departure and destination, it is nevertheless a suitable inquiry if the former school desires to bring forth such allegations. If such corroboration may be obtained, prima fascia evidence of recruiting may be established, and the athlete’s eligibility would be withdrawn; the coach would face sanctions and quite possibly the institution as well.

An investigation may also be launched to certify the athletes existing residence, and that he resides with the same legal guardian as in the previous calendar year. The onus to legitimize the residence is on the school in which the athlete is currently enrolled. In other words, it is up to the school to police itself and the legitimacy of their athlete’s residences. If however outside proof were brought forth showing that the school may have not done it’s due diligence, or may have been deceived by the athlete, the FHSAA and the GMAC both have a right to use the evidence presented to prohibit the athlete from participating. Just as a point of reference, the situation I describe is similar to the situation of a few years back with South ridge and a wrestler that transferred there from Killian. South Ridge sent out their personnel to confirm residence and approved the athlete, but upon further evidence brought forth by a third party (Video Tape) of the athlete living in another location, the GMAC rescinded the athlete’s eligibility.

These are the only two legitimate scenarios I can think of by which the athlete in question my have his eligibility challenged based on the information provided.

The Ref

43 comments:

Spiderman said...

Ref,

Thanks again for taking the time to answer this question.

Your post was very informative, I hope it satisfies the curious.

Spiderman said...

Anonymous,

So tell us how you really feel?

I'm sorry you feel that way, but this Blog is about what is current. It just so happens that Osorio's move to American is not only current but also news worthy. He did a fantastic job at Hialeah, and many are wondering if he can duplicate his success at American. You are no obligated to read the Blog, but if it's Osorio stuff that bothers you, then just don't read Osorio related material.

You may feel free to complain about it ad nauseam, but that will be a futile effort. Instead, why don't you give us some facts on why you think Osorio sucks, and not just spew hate because he likely cut you off his team or had one of his wrestlers whoop your ass.

Anonymous said...

The "Ref" writes very similar to the spiderman. Their use of words makes me curious.

Hmmmmm......

Anonymous said...

i think the spider is osorio and osorio is pardo and pardo is the spider and ha ha ha! can we wrestle yet!

Spiderman said...

So are you anonymous or are you curious?

The ref writes me his thoughts, I edit them and put them into Blog form. That is our arrangement, I happen to have the same deal with other contributors. If they prefer to have me post things just as they send them, then that's what I do. If however they prefer to have me edit their work and make corrections and add some flare, then I will do that as well. Read my Help Wanted article and you will see this is exactly the offer I made. I have nothing to hide, and while I am very knowledgeable on the rules myself as I have read the FHSAA manual as can anyone that goes to their site, I don't have the time to break everything down like the ref can, so I appreciate the help of special contributors like the Ref.

Anonymous said...

so now iits a 3 way fu@# fest. osorio,pardo,spiderman lol.

Moon Knight said...

Spider,

If I were you I would put a complete stop to this nonsense and keep this forum clean. It would appear that a couple of idiots have made their way to your site. I am very curious of this subject and would like to know more from Mr. Ref. Please keep with the pertinent discussion.

Spiderman said...

Anonymous,

It's a nice fishing expedition you've got going. As it stands, I do not know the ref's identity, but even if I did I would not divulge that information. The ref does not have administrative privilege on this Blog, so while he may write responses on the Blog comments section, official main page entries have to go through me. You may feel free to believe I am The ref, Pardo, Osorio, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny for all I care, just please keep reading, it’s good for my site; O! and please tell your friends.

Spiderman said...

Moonie,

I will not censor anyone; let them say what they will. Their words will thrive or die based on their merits.

And nver fear, the pertinent discussion will continue.

Reef Raider said...

The spider is right, I just send him my interpretations and he does the rest, my writing is not nearly as eloquent as his. I am here to help with the rules, too bad some of you scrubs just think about conspiracies.

Magneto said...

That's a pretty thorough job ref. Don't think I agree that Osorio's team suck. You have to learn to seperate your personal opinion of him and what he has done. Someone may be a prick (only as an example, of course), but you can not deny their accomplishments. One has nothing to do with the other...by the way anonymous writes very similar to anonymous. Could they be the same? Get an alias already! Read the Google privacy agreement. You're safe don't worry. No one will know you.

Spiderman said...

Magneto,

"by the way anonymous writes very similar to anonymous. Could they be the same?"

This was very funny. LOL!!!

One of my favorite things since I started on the internet is the conspiracy theories. I really get a kick out of it; it's almost religious in nature in the sense that people actually place faith in their accusations as if there were scripture to back it up. I have been accused of being many different people, real people, and I have been accused of having many aliases when I only need one.

In any case, you come across as an intelligent and informed individual, glad to have you here, as that combination is quite rare in these parts.

As for the Anonymous contingent, they are hit and run individuals too stupid to get an alias but smart enough to realize that if they got an alias, their stupidity would be confirmed every time they used said alias. What other good reason could there be for not acquiring a persona that only they and anyone they tell could possibly know about?

Anonymous said...

I can't stand Osorio, but give credit where it's do. Hate him or love him, no one can agrue that he's an excellent coach that wins where ever he goes. He puts in his time and full love of coaching into this sport. My two cents.

Spiderman said...

Anonymous,

Well said and good point.

Wins where ever he goes is pretty accurate; he did win at JFK, but that was middle school. He had great success at Hialeah, and because it was Hialeah, that was impressive as hell. But now he has to do it again at American to solidify the perception; I agree that he is one of the better coaches, and I personally feel he will have great success at American just as he had at Hialeah, now he has just has to do it.

As for the can’t stand him thing, I wish I knew him well enough to say, but as a general rule, the coaches who’s team are kicking ass and walking around with attitude are usually deficient in making friends. What I am trying to say is it’s no surprise you dislike him; how many people you think really like Balmeceda or Husk? I think the correct answer would be Very few…

SILVER SURFER said...

Balmeceda is a real good guy.He is funny and a bit of a wiseass.And he is loyal to his friends.I think Spidey is right,success breeds jealousy among the inferior ones.BTW how can you dislike the Smurf of florida wrestling?

Spiderman said...

Silver,

Nice to hear from you again. It's funny, not many people liked phillips much either. Isn't it funny how that works?

Magneto said...

Is the Silver Surfer, Phillips? Don't believe the spider, I like Phillips.

Spiderman said...

Magneto,

Rumor has always had Phillips as the Surfer, but I have always been Pardo/Whelan/Mahler/Coney/Lawton/Balmeceda/many others.

Magneto said...

So then surfer or not, where is Phillips now?

Spiderman said...

Magneto,

Rumor has himin Broke Back Tennessee. LOL!!!

Just kidding, but he is in Tennessee coaching Junior High wrestling last I heard.

Magneto said...

Well then I wish him well. Broke back or not. After all a man's personal life is his own. :)

Anonymous said...

Not sure about the legalities of coaches following athletes. But if it is found that the athlete knew the Coach was moving and then enrolled, it is big trouble. One of our girls BBall teams up here in J'ville got in trouble when the WHOLE TEAM transfered.
http://www.fhsaa.org/news/2007/0129b.htm

One of the rare cases where the FHSAA actually grew a pair.

As for Osorio, he is an adorable man. Very fun to watch coach and always gets his kids fired up.

Spiderman said...

Cujosmom,

Nice to have you here. That's 1 vote for Osorio is a sweetheart. That might be my next poll.

Spiderman said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Magneto said...

How about individual county rankings. Is that a bit premature? That might be a good new blog topic. I have some thoughts and am sure others out there can contribute. It looks like Dade will have a tremendous show of force at state this year.

Anonymous said...

Here is an idea. If you don't like Osorio or the way that he builds his teams then do not wrestle them. Do not schedule any matches against him. If you already did then forfeit that match.

Spiderman said...

Magneto,

I know you came to the boards a little late so you may not know this but the list of top teams was already done by several individuals, you are the first to suggest an individuals list. We Had Doc Dooms Breakdown, KW's Power Ring Rankings, MoonKnight’s insight, and likely the funniest of all and I suggested you read it, the PWD Preview. If you look on the right of the screen you will see the Blog Archive, if you click on the little yellow arrow next to the month of October, it will show you all the topics discussed, and there you will find the aforementioned post’s on rankings.

If you haven’t already done so, I suggest you take some time and read way back to the beginning and how my Blog got started; there is some emotional but enjoyable stuff on there.

That said, since we haven’t heard what you think the rankings should be why don’t you put a list together for us and I will post it on my Blog under your Banner.

Something like...

Magneto’s Mind

The Dade Rankings

It will be a nice topic and likely get lots of attention being that it is more timely than the previous contributions and given that we have not yet had a list of individuals but only team rankings. I hope to hear from you soon if you are interested; and if you are, please put your list together and send it to me at Spiderman_fkn_wrestling@yahoo.com send me a note on the Blog when you do so I can check my e-mail which I often forget to do. Good luck!

Spiderman said...

Anonymous,

Not scheduling him is one thing, but forfeiting is something else.

No one here has yet been able to conclusively show that Osorio has recruited anyone, not even Espinosa last year. That is not to say that he did not, I don't know whether he did or didn't, but if he did where is the smoking gun?

People can talk all the $hit they want but so far there is not even a pattern that could logically lead to an assumption of recruiting.

I think Osorio has built his teams through hard work and dedication; if you think differently then don't tell me why but rather show me, or shut up already.

Anonymous said...

if osorio did recruit espinosa why was he allowed to wrestle at goleman? Hmmmm, very interesting.

Spiderman said...

Anonymous,

Maybe you are having a hard time understanding the rules. Goleman was Espinosa's home school. He tried to go to Hialeah and was denied eligibility (if I am not mistaken) because of a change in guardian. He was allowed to return to Goleman to his original address with his original guardian and was subsequently declared eligible there. I don't understand your point of contention?

Anonymous said...

kid shouldn't have wrestled. coast a kid a title.

Spiderman said...

Anonymous,

Why should he not have wrestled?

He did not cost anyone a title, he was the better wrestler on the last wrestling day of the year and earned a title he deserved.

Would you rather have seen Rat be the state champion knowing the best kid that day did not win?

He was declared eligible by both sanctioning bodies, what more do you want?

Anonymous said...

So you are saying that because OJ was not convicted in a court of law, he did not kill Nicole and Ronald, good one. Osorio has been nothing but careful and lucky. No one needs to bring out any proof, he will get what he deserves with time. He will drown himself. Hopefully not, I would like to see him be successful, but doing it the right way.

Spiderman said...

Anonymous,

What one thinks is irrelevant in the eyes of the law, it is only what one can prove that counts.

However, you are correct, the court of public opinion is something else entirely.

With OJ there was at least a bloody glove and a famous ride in a white Ford Bronco.

Show me Osorio's Bloody Glove and his ride in the Bronco already or shut your Yap.

Moon Knight said...

Anonymous,

So Osorio recruites and yet he finds a way to escape notice. Now he recruits his own kids to follow him to American and yet again escapes notice. Are you mad that he left you? Did not recruit you? I agree with Spider, where is the public opinion glove? I'm with you and the lynch mob but show me something. All I know from what I have read here is that he is really good at leaving his kids stranded. He left his John Kennedy kids stranded, he now leaves his Hialeah kids stranded. If there are any American kids reading this then you should already expect to be left jilted at the altar. I guess he has commitment issues.

Spiderman said...

Moonie,

Ouch! That was a little tough on Osorio, I'm sure his kids don't sympathize with your comments, and there is no reason to believe he will leave Amercian.

Osorio left Hialeah because of a disagreement with the administration that was beyond his control; so unless something unexpected happens at American, I think Osorio will be there a long time.

Moon Knight said...

Spider,

I beg to differ. Why did he leave John Kennedy? Why didn't he take the High School after Giccobe? He has a history of leaving his kids stranded and not giving a pile of shit about his kids. We talk about kids being loyal to their schools and programs and here we have a coach who is loyal to himself. I don't want to smear his character but he does have a history of leaving his kids. There is more proof that he will leave his kids at American than there is of him staying. His kids may care for the man but it seems obvious that he doesn't return the affection. I think it is better to say that his kids didn't want to follow their coach to American and did all they could to get away from him.

Moon Knight said...

Spider,

I digress, I apologize to Osorio. I didn't mean to criticize his character. I guess we all have problems with administators and administration. I hope he does find peace at American. It would be nice to have a northern power again. Have some 'balance in the force', as some would say.

Spiderman said...

Moonie,

You sound like one of those kids Osorio left behind. You can't possibly know the reasons why Osorio left those places, and for you to judge him on assumptions is improper. There are a variety of reasons why a coach might leave a school, and none of them have anything to do with a lack of dedication towards their wrestlers.

That is why coaches who have been at one place for a long time deserve extra recognition because they have endured all the changes in administration, and have adapted to new situations all the while. Therefore, shout outs for perseverance go out to Camarotti nearly 30 years at Beach, Johnson 20 plus years at South ridge, Soderholm 20 plus years at Palmetto, Ryan 20 plus years at Springs, Turner nearly 20 years at Lakes, Rivera nearly 20 years at Sunset, Pardo 15 plus years at South Miami, Balmeceda nearly 15 years at South Dade. I’m sorry if I missed any coaches out there with 15 years or more of service at one school, but these are the ones I readily remember.

Moon Knight said...

Spider,

I understood the magnitude of my comments as soon as they were published which is why I extended an Olive Branch. check the comment right after my tirade.

Spiderman said...

Moonie,

OK, all is forgiven. LOL!!!

Anyway, I agree with you and I hope Osorio does in fact find peace at American.

I would love to give him props 15 years from now for his endurance at American.

Balance to the force, I like that, but that would mean Osorio is Anakin, and we all know what he ended up being.

Hey speaking of The Force, isn't is about time for another installment of the Dade Wars?

Hey Doom wadda ya say Bud?

Can you hook us up?

Anonymous said...

olive branch, more like misletoe. get a room all of you.

Spiderman said...

Anonymous,

Mistletoe!

LOL!!!

Well done, that was very funny.

Thanks for the contribution.

Hey do you think you could please get a screen name so that we may know it is you being funny next time and not confuse you with anonymous.